Monday, May 3, 2010
The Kite Runner- Chpt. 11 -15 Discussion Questions
We begin to see the cultural differences between males and females as the story progresses. Discuss your impressions of how women are treated differently and the impact this has on the society as a whole. Choose an example from the story that illustrates this. In addition, compare and contrast the relationships of Soraya and Amir and their fathers. How have their upbringings contributed to these relationships?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
The women in this society have almost no rights. They aren't respected by their community and there is a significant difference between the treatment of men and women. For example, Soraya was saying that she was very upset about how she became a social pariah because she had been with a man. She told Amir that had it been a man who did what she did it, would be laughed off as 'boys being boys'. Soraya and Amir have very similar relationships with their fathers. Both of their fathers do not respect them because they believe they have reasons to be ashamed of them. Baba is ashamed of Amir because he has that 'something missing'. How he can lack a spine and is simply unlike Baba. The General is ashamed of Soraya because she was with her boyfriend, which he believes is shameful and has caused her to not marry until she met Amir. Both fathers have put their children through much emotional strife.
ReplyDeleteThere is obviously a large difference of how men are viewed versus how women are viewed. It's obvious when it comes to the engagement of Soraya to Amir. Amir must first ask Soraya's father if it is okay to marry her. This is typical of their culture. But Soraya has a secret that made suitors not want to marry her so she was surprised when Amir wanted to marry her. When Soraya was 18 she ran away with an Afghan man who was into drugs. They lived together for almost a month and she was looked down upon for her for her choices in society. If a man had run away with a woman his behavior may have not been looked down upon. Eventually,her father came to get her and dragged her away. Shortly after the incident they moved to California. Soraya and her father have always had differences due to their situation and she has broken tradition and rebelled against him. Amir tries to please his father. It seems that Amir has a strong relationship with his father because it is clear that Amir would never want to disobey him. Amir admires that Soraya could tell him her secret but he could not be honest with Soraya about the situation with Hassan. This demonstrates a difference in their upbringing as well.
ReplyDeleteWomen are considered inferior in the society of Afghanistan. For example, when Amir went to the orphanage to get Hassan's son, they said he was already bought by a soldier in the Taliban. But the owner of the orphanage said that the Taliban usually bought girls for small amounts of money, but it was better than no money at all. This is showing that in the society of Afghanistan people consider girls (and even boys, sometimes) to be worth a certain amout of money. They are selling children. I understand the man's argument that if he gves one, they won't take ten and then they get money in exchange, but the fact that the Taliban would take girls over boys shows that they thought the boys would eventually have more potential.
ReplyDeleteAnother example is that Soraya calls Amir "Amir Agha," he is considered superior in the marraige because he is a male. Soraya's father was continuously trying to get Amir's approval before the marraige so that his daughter's name could be re-made from when she had an abusive husband. They depend on a man to make the reputation of a girl.
Also, when they were in the truck coming from Afghanistan, the soldier would not let the people pass unless he could take advantage of the woman. this shows their disrespect and their treatment of women like objects.
There are obviously many cultural differences between males and females throughout this book. I've noticed that Soraya is treated differently by her father. He treats her more like an object. What caused me to think this way about this situation is that her father was extremely protective of her when Amir was there. The fact that Amir wouldn't talk to her when her father was there shows a lot about this. It means that Amir knows that her father is so protective of her, and he believes that by seeing her when he's not around, he's safer because she isn't protective of herself: that's her father's job.
ReplyDeleteAs the book progresses, the way women are treated and how this affects society is shown. Since Afganistan is a predominatly Muslim country,and in that part of the world, women are treated poorly on account of the mens interpretation of the koran. We can see the social gap between men and women in the part of the book when Amir and his family go to Jalalabad. Some members of the family practice polygamy, and when the family reached Kaka Homayoun's house, the women were stuck in the house cooking while the men were outside having fun and enjoying themselves.
ReplyDeleteSoraya and Amir's relationship compared to their relationship with their fathers are very similiar. Both fathers are ashamed of their children but for different reasons. Amir's father is ashamed of him because he isn't man enough like Baba and has "something missing". Soraya's relationship with her father is different because she disobeyed her father and ran off with a drug addict.
Men and women are clearly not treated the same. We see from the stories that Soraya and her mother tell that men have much more freedom than women. Soraya tells about how she was looked down on for living with her boyfriend, even though she knew men who "went to clubs and impregnated their girlfriends." We see this huge difference in the rights of the gender by the way Amir can go up and talk to Soraya, but Soraya is looked down on for talking back. We see also that Soraya and her father have a very different relationship than Amir and Baba. Amir and Baba, although not exceptionally close, seem to have more of an equal relationship. Soraya's father treats his daughter more like she is something he owns than his own flesh and blood. Baba has to ask for her for Amir, as if she is something they are exchanging between them.
ReplyDeleteWomen in this society are treated terribly. They aren't allowed to have the same oppurtinities as men, and most of the men see the women as inferior, and not as people that can do equal work. The women are expected to stay home and take care of their husbands and children. They are even seen as objects that are there for the men's disposal. In the novel, one scene that particularly makes me think of the way women were treated was when all the people were in the truck going from Afghanistan to the basment in the house that Kamir owned. The soldier checking inside the truck would not allow the people to pass unless he was able to "take advantage of her." This just shows how women in Afghanistan were not highly respected, just like the women in America.
ReplyDeleteAmir and his father have always had a very tense relationship. Baba has never really encouraged Amir to do what Amir wants; Baba is only concerned with Amir making money and having a more respectable job, not about his son's life, and desire to write. Soraya had an okay relationship with her father, until she decided to run away with her boyfriend. When her father found out, he violently threatened her boyfriend, and since then, her relationship with her father has changed in a negative way. Now, both of their relationships with their fathers are very strained.
As the story progresses you can see that more and more males are seen as superior to women becuase of mostly the religiouse beliefs in the koran. It has effected the society in a whole in that many girls are marrying men for their social status and ethnic beliefs of their ancestors or race rather than if they actually like the person or not. Marriage to them is just like one big buisiness deal. On the other hand I believe that Soraya and Amir actually are going to be wed becuase they like eachother. I think that this was aloud to happen becuase of the fact that they moved out of Afganistan and into America where there are many cultural differences. Baba and Soraya have different relationships in with their fathers becuase Amir grew up his entire life trying to make Baba happy and jsut wanted Baba to love him and feel proud of him more then anything else even if it meant making other people not like him in the process becuase he is selfish. Soraya on the other hand rebelled against her father to do what she wanted becuase she didnt care what he thought. They are opposites personality wise which I feel that is maybe why they are drawn together so much becuase opposites attract.
ReplyDeleteIn afganistan women have been subjected to harsh conditions as it a very strict patriarchal society. They are treated very inferior and have little to no rights at all. As a women, I think this is horrible as women should be treated fairly and with the same amount of respect as men. When Amir went to try and get Hassan's son, he learnecd that girls could be bought for little money and that the owner of the orphanage said that it was better than no money at all.
ReplyDeleteThe relationships between Soraya and Amir and their fathers are very similar as both of them are dissapointed in their children. Amir's father is dissapointed in him as Amir isn't "man enough" and Soraya father is dissapointed in him because she is just property to him.
The age old story of male vs. female has been a controversy in Afghanistan. The cultural differences and inequalities that the women face are still evident in their society. The strict patriarchal society that is in place means that the women are under the control of their fathers, their husbands, and their male superiors. An example of this would be when Soraya and Amir began to talk and Amir began to "court" her. There was one incidence when they were talking alone in the market and Amir gave her one of the stories that he had written. When Soraya's father came over and saw this, he promptly threw the book away. This shows that even the content that she is exposed to is regulated by her father. Further, later in the novel when Soraya is unable to get pregnant, her father says that adoption is not acceptable. It is because of his opinion that she does not adopt. While Amir always seeks to please his father and tries to do very much in order to be in his good graces, Soraya’s relationship with her father differs greatly. Since she ran away with her boyfriend and rebelled against her father, their relationship has not been the same and they are still patching it up the holes that exist.
ReplyDeleteWomen are becoming less important in society, and within the story it is exemplified that women are not anywhere near as respected as their male counterparts. This distinct difference mayt be the result of a variety of factors. Primarily, it is obvious that women and girls are not as highly regarded in society because of the doragatory terms that are slurred in their direction. When discussing males, this insuting is never used. My impression of this mistreating of women is that Agfhanistan and their culture are just behind the modernizing benifit of womens rights. In many countries, it may be shameful to have a daughter as opposed to a son, however, although this could possibly be the situation in Afghanistan, the comparison of the relationship of Soroya and Amir and their respective fathers does not show favoring towards male children. It seems as if Baba is ashamed of Amir and the life he has led so far, just as Soraya's father is ashamed of her. That said, it is questionable to what the standard preferance of parents in this society is when it comes to their children. It has been unsure what that "something missing" that Baba mentions specifically is, however, this seems to be the reason to why Baba is ashamed of Amir and how he has turned out. This proves that their relationship is strained, and that it is no better that Soraya's relationship with her father, the general. Soraya running off with Amir shows her disaproval of her fathers opinions and wills. The way she handled her situation with Amir results in Soraya's relationship with her father to be stressful and negative.
ReplyDeleteAs the story progresses the cultural differences between males and females becomes more prominent. For example, even though Baba didn't want Amir to become a fiction writer, it was still seen as an acceptable occupation when he arrived in America; however, when Soraya decided that she wanted to become a teacher or when Khala Jamila had wanted to be a singer; General Taheri was against the whole idea and therefore, Jamila never became a singer.
ReplyDeleteThis brings up the relationships of Soraya and Amir to their fathers; the General and Baba. Baba always thought something was missing in Amir and never fully accepted the fact that Amir would become a writer. Soraya always wanted to be a teacher; however, the General never saw this as an acceptable profession. Baba was always hard on Amir as a child as was the General on Soraya after she had run away; however, both were set on following the jobs of their choice. Women during this time in society were seen as objects, not people, where as males were seen as the “head of the household.” After Soraya was brought back from her first bad relationship, gossip spread everywhere about her, however, not a word was spoken about the man.
Women are treated differently in society because, in the culture of the 1970's, protection of women was still of the most importance. When Amir first meets Soraya, he was very conscious of all the people looking at him and the scene he was making. When an unmarried man talks to an unmarried woman, people are disgusted with the woman and look down on her. Women were also very secluded from society and were not allowed to be informed of the goings on in society and weren't allowed to ask their fathers about the lives of others. The two fathers share similar qualities as well as different qualities. Baba has high expectations of Amir and this continues through adulthood. Baba wants Amir to become more responsible and take more control of his life. Soraya's father, however, is protective over her like when he held a gun to her boyfriends head. He also wants her to be involved medicine or a more professional job than teaching.
ReplyDeleteAs the story progresses, there is more evidence to prove that females and males aren't treated equally by society. Baba has to ask Soraya's father for permission for Amir to marry her. This shows that women aren't able to get a decision in the marriage making because it was made by her father. Soraya may be happy with this decision, but in other cases the female might not want this arranged marriage. Soraya's father wants to change what the family is known for after Soraya had an abusing husband. This gives Soraya's father a bad name and he sees it as Soraya's fault. Soraya's father and Amir's father both see flaws in their children. They don't see their children following the footsteps of the family. The actions of their children disappoint them.
ReplyDeleteIt is quite obvious that women are inferior in Afghan culture. Although Amir and Baba are now in America, they are still surrounded by Afghan people and culture. This means that women still do not possess the same freedoms or rights as do women in America. We see this with Amir, Soraya, and their families. When Amir and Baba are talking to General Taheri they discuss personal matters, such as Amir's grades and what he is studying in college. However, when Amir talks to Soraya, the situation changes. Because they are both unmarried and Soraya is a woman, discussing personal matters is seen as scandalous by Afghan standards. They are first talking because Amir claims to be looking for her father. No one takes notice because Amir seems to be inquiring about someone else's whereabouts, but when he asks what Soraya is reading, Amir feels the stares of his fellow Afghans. It is also mentioned that fathers and sons could talk about women, but it would completely unacceptable for a daughter to ask her father about a man.
ReplyDeleteAmir and Soraya both have strange relationships with their fathers. It's hard to say if these relationships are normal; it seems that certain situations have shaped them. Amir is not as masculine as his father wishes was and focuses on creative writing. This makes their relationship strained and the two men are not always connected. Soraya ran off with a man she was not married to, and this puts a strain on her relationship with her father.
In Afghani society, "women's rights" are nonexistent. Women aren't respected at all, and they certainly aren't given the same social abilities as men are. When Soraya was younger, she had run off with a man who was heavily involved in drugs for a short time, and she became a pariah, an outcast, and a social exile. Strangely, men who do similar things (including going to strip clubs or impregnating women out of wedlock) are seen as "just having fun". This attitude is incredibly unfair and forces women to accept an inferior role in society.
ReplyDeleteBoth Amir and Soraya have strange relationships with their fathers. Baba is ashamed of his son for expressing relatively feminine characteristics and interests. Soraya's father is embarrassed to be associated with her because of her aforementioned history of breaking social codes.
It is abundantly clear that women have inferior rights to men under Taliban rule, as well as in other places around the world in a broader perspective.
In Afghan culture, it is quite evident that men are treated better than women. The strict patriarchal society that is in place means that the women are under the control of their fathers and their husbands. An example of this would be when Soraya and Amir began to talk and Amir began to court her in the market place. This drew a lot of attention from the surrounding people in the market place, and Amir was aware of that. In their culture, unmarried women don't really speak to unmarried men, and they look down upon women who do so. I agree with the person above who stated that, "Women during this time in society were seen as objects, not people." This is evident when SOraya returned from her bad relationship and people were talking bad about her, instead of talking bad about her abusive boyfriend.
ReplyDeleteThe relationships between Amir and his father, and Soraya and her father differs greatly.
Amir and his father have a very complicated relationship. Amir always tries to please his father and tries to do everything he can to earn his father's approval, Soraya’s relationship, however, differs greatly. Since she ran away with her boyfriend and rebelled against her father, their relationship has not been the same. Both Soraya's mother and father dissaproved of this relationship but she continued with it anyway.
Men and women are treated very differently throughout the novel. Women are judged on everything that they do and are looked down upon in shame if they miss behave or act out of line. They do not have many rights, are not treated with respect and are restricted a great amount unlike men. They do not have social lives or freedoms. This is proven when Soraya is constantly judged on a decision she made when she was young and foolish on running away with an Afghanistan boy while men are often praised for being with a girl before marriage.
ReplyDeleteThe relationships between Amir and his fathers and Soraya and her fathers are similar in some ways. Soraya's father is often embarassed and ashamed of her past while Baba, Amir's father is also often ashamed of the way he acts in public.
Just as everyone above has stated, the unequal treatment of women compared to men in Afghan culture is highly obvious in Kite Runner. The most clear example of this difference are the encounters Amir and Soraya first make with one another at the flea market. He is able to go up to her and make as much small talk as he wants, and not be judged. Soraya on the other hand, is forced to not make eye-contact and give one-worded answers due to the fact that she is at risk of being gossiped about by the other Afghani's in the market. Women are forced to be much more conscience of their social doings than men have to be. Men are able to go out with whom ever, go wherever, do what ever they desire. Women on the other hand are either controlled by their fathers or the men they are married to. They have little social freedom, and if they do have it, it is rarely utilized for they are at risk of ruining their reputation with every action made.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Olivia in that both Amir and Soraya's fathers are embarassed by their children in one form or another. On the other hand though, Amir and Baba's relationship is much more easygoing than the realtionship between Soraya and the General. Baba and Amir were able to talk about personal things and be friendly with one another. With Soraya and her father, their is not that comfortability between them that allows them to talk about personal issues without tension or awkwardness.
In Afghan culture, it is very clear that men and women are treated differently from one another; evidently, men have many more rights than women do. Because this is a part of their culture, many Afghans may look down upon women. One example from the story that illustrates this is when all of the people were in the truck (on the way to a house that Kamir owned). As they passed by soldiers that were guarding the road, the Russian guard made eye contact with one of the women in the truck. The guard says that they can only pass if he can spend 30 minutes with the woman. This scene supports the idea that women are seen as objects, and in this society, they are only useful for being taken advantage of. In addition to this, Baba had to ask Soraya's father if Amir could marry her; this also proves that women have limited freedoms, specifically in who they marry. They don't get to choose who they marry, and just like Adam G said, marriage is often times no more than a business arrangement between families.
ReplyDeleteI find that the relationship between Amir and his father is similar to the relationship between Soraya and her father; both relationships have grown very tense, because both parents appear to be disappointed in their children (although, for different reasons). Soraya's father is ashamed of her past, whereas Baba is disappointed that Amir lacks something and is different from most boys. However, I feel that Soraya does not mind her father's disappointment, but Amir does. Amir continues to try and be just like his father and make him proud, but Soraya had no problem running away with her boyfriend that had a drug problem.
I agree with everyone above that as the story progresses we learn alot more about the Afghanistan culture and customs. The different roles that men and women have are adressed and we see that women barely have basic rights and freedoms. They are treated as property and not equal to men. When Amir wants to marry Soraya his father must ask permission of General Sahib. The woman has no say in who she wants to marry or when. Her father makes these decisions for her. It is clear that women are not allowed to make important decisions for themselves. When Soraya ran away with ther boyfriend it was frowned upon and talked about by many of the Afgahn people. They looked down on her after the decision she made. Another example is when Amir first started talking to Soraya, Amir was allowed to talk to Soraya but it would be wrong if Soraya was to talk back.
ReplyDeleteBoth Amir and Soraya have very strained relationships with their fathers. Babas only concern for Amir is that he gets respectable job that pays well. He doesn't believe in Amir's dream to become a writer. Soraya's father is very disapointed in his daughter and the choices she made that greatly embarrassed him. She disobeyed him and ran off with a man he didn't aprove of. For this he does not see her the same.
There is obviously a huge gap between the men and the women in the Afghan society. The most prominent case of this was the arranged marriage between Soraya. From the start, this custom is littered with signs of patriarchy. Before anything else, Amir has to ask Soraya's father for permission to marry her rather than Soraya herself. This shows just how little respect women are given, even when making a huge decision. Although Soraya agreed with this decision, one can only imagine just how often arranged brides do not like their husbands. The tradition here is just one of many that create the overwhelming patriarchy in Afghanistan today.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to the relationships between father and child, Soraya's and Amir's stories are fairly similar. In both cases, the child feels that the father is disappointed in them constantly which creates a strong tension. However, it is easily to see that Amir definitely gets more respect from Baba than Soraya gets from her father. I believe that this also ties back to the patriarchy of society because it seems that While Baba is simply waiting for Amir to become the son he always wanted, Soraya’s father has basically given up on her.
It is quite obvious that in Afghan society men and women aren't treated equally. Men are seen as the superior gender and are given more rights than the women. When Amir iniates conversation with Soraya, he knows that he is potentially making her the topic of conversation. "-I was fully aware of the Afghan double standard that favored my gender. Not Did you see him chatting with her? but Wooooy! Did you see how she wouldn't let him go? What a lochak!"
ReplyDeleteI agree with Julianna's view on the relationship between Amir, Soraya and their fathers. Amir is constantly trying to please Baba. He is always doing everything he can in order to gain his approval and make him proud, however, Soraya rebells against her father by running away with her boyfriend.
As the story progresses, there are obvious male and female role differences in Afghanistan society. For one, the example when the Russian solider demanded a half hour with a woman in the truck for all of them to pass. Women are seen as mere figures to use and throw away. That is why when Soraya meets Amir she is shocked at how well he treats her, especially with the knowledge of her past. Soraya's father reminds her of her tainted past constantly because it is shameful to their family name. The general said, "Blood is a powerful thing," meaning that their reputation all depends on lineage. To be married to Amir would bring some goodness to the family name. It appears to me that Soraya tries to rebel against her father, while Amir tries to live in harmony with Baba. His upbring was to be respectful and honest, to do the right thing. He tries to live up to Baba's expectations, and ever since Hassan's rape Amir tries to live as honest a life as possible.
ReplyDeleteIt is negligent to say that women are only mistreated in Afghanistan and developing countries. Sadly, women have almost always been looked down upon, with society favoring the strength and masculinity of men. We need to remind ourselves that we have only just recently broken the barrier to women’s rights, and Afghanistan has had a history of polygamy, veiling, and other practices that we interpret as patriarchal abuse. Old habits die hard. We see this treatment of women layered throughout the book. As my fellow classmates observed, Soraya has been forced to bear her father’s shame and anger when she ran off with another man. The man had his way with her, leaving her to the unforgiving society in which she must toil with her broken dignity. Amir has witnessed the inferior status of women even since he was a child; watching his uncle’s many wives cook while the men of the family smoked and chatted leisurely. In the world of Amir, women have become more of a commodity rather than sentient human beings. The General shows his contempt for Soraya, addressing her in a way that is demanding and assertive. However, Amir’s relation with Soraya is much more genuine than the business-like relations between many Afghani couples, as we can see from Amir’s tenderness and compassion for her.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the history of Afghanistan, the concept of patriarchy has been practiced. Women are always looked down upon, compared to the masculine dominance. Practices such as polygamy and the wearing of the veil are only a few examples that show that women are inferior to men. Amir has grown up in this society, and when he goes out with his father and many other families, it is the wives and daughters who prepare and serve dinner while the men just sit around and smoke. This is an example of how women are treated differently then men.
ReplyDeleteAmir and Soraya have similar relationships with their fathers, as they each have done something to disappoints them causing a change in their relationship with their fathers; however, they are different because Amir’s is still a secret while Soraya was caught. She ran away with her drug addicted boyfriend, got caught by her father, and now is not respected by her own family member. Amir watched Hassen be abused, and indirectly leads to Hassen and Ali's departure from Bab and Amir. Ever since then, Baba and Ali's relationship has been filled with tension, just as Soraya's and her father’s is. However, I do agree with Emily in that Amir and Soraya do seem to have more chemistry then most Afghani couples.
I think it is safe to say that everyone above me agrees that the culturall difference between men and women are that women are not respected and are inferior in the society. As Kite Runner progresses, a patriarchal system, in which the man has more power than the woman, has been more evident. Women in this society are treated terribly. Men are able to have more freedom and opportunities than women, and see them as people who are less than them. The women are expected to fufill the role that has been set for many generations: being the housewife. This includes staying at home and taking care of their husbands and children. When Amir decides that he wants to marry Soraya, Baba has to ask her father for permission, not her. This shows that women have no say in life changing decisions, so they are essentially incapable of being in charge of their own lives. One example of the man controlling the woman, and basically taking complete advantage of her is when they were passing soldier that were guarding the road. The Russian guard made eye contact with one of the women in the truck and then says that he will allow for them to pass if he can spend 30 minutes with the woman. In this society, a woman is seen as a prize, or an object, not a valuable human being.
ReplyDelete